Tricone setup?

[KW]

Everyone talks about ways to improve import tricones but I cant find any
specifics other than nut, bridge and cone replacement. What other changes
are recommended? Ive seen posts mentioning things like soundposts, leveling
the cones, string angle over the bridge, etc, but I cant find any clear
instructions. Ive tried MIMF and done a google search of this newsgroup with
no luck. Any one know of a FAQ or website with instructions or detailed
discusions on setting up tricones?

Besides the setup porblem my Amistar style 3 has another small problem, the
tailpeice is a little off center by about 1/4 inch and I suspect this is the
reason why its so hard to play. Even though the action isnt too high you
need arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger to play the damn thing. Bending strings
is definatly out of the question. What other factors would affect this?
Break angle over the bridge?

So in summary: (sorry this post is so longwinded)

1.What steps should I do to improve the tone of my tricone
2. Is there a resource for this information?
3.Why is my guitar so damn hard to play?

Thanks in advance.
Karl

[Charlie]

#3 might be affected by string gauge.
--
Charlie
www.492acousticblues.com

Post by KW
Everyone talks about ways to improve import tricones but I cant find any
specifics other than nut, bridge and cone replacement. What other changes
are recommended? Ive seen posts mentioning things like soundposts, leveling
the cones, string angle over the bridge, etc, but I cant find any clear
instructions. Ive tried MIMF and done a google search of this newsgroup with
no luck. Any one know of a FAQ or website with instructions or detailed
discusions on setting up tricones?
Besides the setup porblem my Amistar style 3 has another small problem, the
tailpeice is a little off center by about 1/4 inch and I suspect this is the
reason why its so hard to play. Even though the action isnt too high you
need arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger to play the damn thing. Bending strings
is definatly out of the question. What other factors would affect this?
Break angle over the bridge?
So in summary: (sorry this post is so longwinded)
1.What steps should I do to improve the tone of my tricone
2. Is there a resource for this information?
3.Why is my guitar so damn hard to play?
Thanks in advance.
Karl

[Mike Dotson]

<< Besides the setup porblem my Amistar style 3 has another small problem, the
tailpeice is a little off center by about 1/4 inch and I suspect this is the
reason why its so hard to play. Even though the action isnt too high you
need arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger to play the damn thing. Bending strings
is definatly out of the question. What other factors would affect this?
Break angle over the bridge?

So in summary: (sorry this post is so longwinded)

1.What steps should I do to improve the tone of my tricone
2. Is there a resource for this information?
3.Why is my guitar so damn hard to play? >>

Some time ago we used to cover these things fairly regularly, I hope it's safe
to come out and make suggestions for the improvement of resonator guitars
again? I'll just assume it is.

First is the tailpiece actually attached off center, or is it that the neck may
be installed incorrectly and the strings have to cross the T-bridge at an
angle? if so this is a real problem and needs to be looked at by a qualified
repair person.

1: Set up and strings are King, even stock budget resonators can sound decent
with medium or better PB strings and a careful set up. I recommend always
checking the sound posts to make sure they are set solidly. Some guitars can be
improved by removing the center support that some models come with, but there
needs to be 2 at a minimum to insure the integrity of the guitar. These posts
are what 'sets' the neck and contribute mightily to the overall tone of the
guitar, many people have found their brand new guitar's posts loose.
The next thing is to add a correctly cut bone nut and maple saddle (if it
doesn't already have these things) and make sure the fretboard is in good
shape. After that you can add National cones if you want.

The string slots on the saddle should be similar to the ones on the nut, that
means they should be cut to fit the string properly and should be only 1/2 to
3/4 the depth of the string. On a tricone with a correctly set neck the saddle
is usually only about 1/8-3/16" high. If the saddle is much higher than this
the string angle becomes either to low and you get buzzes, or too high and the
tone can be choked off.
I think it's probably too much to go into all the possible variations of set-up
and neck re-sets in this group. (see above re: qualified repair person) but a
saddle is relatively east to replace if necessary.

2: If you go here:
http://www.guitarseminars.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum
=The+Guitar+Forum&number=1
There is a fairly good discussion currently going on and more in the archives
if you search.
MIMF has several discussions on tricone set up in the library too, but I see
you tried that already.

3: What are your string guages, action height and what kind of playing do you
do on it? If you expect to bend strings up 2 steps like Stevie Ray you're
probably in for some trouble. Resonators tend like heavier strings, and/or if
you do go light you'll have to at the very least limit your attack or wear
fingerpicks. If not it's going to buzz.

It's tough to diagnose and solve problems over the internet but I hope some of
that may help. Hopefully some others will also have suggestions.

Mike
http://www.MaricopaGuitarCo.com
http://www.blueswizards.net/

[Charlie]

Yes Mike it's safe....

Post by Mike Dotson
Some time ago we used to cover these things fairly regularly, I hope it's safe
to come out and make suggestions for the improvement of resonator guitars
again? I'll just assume it is.

[Mike Dotson]

<< Yes Mike it's safe.... >>


Whew. :o)

Mike
http://www.MaricopaGuitarCo.com
http://www.blueswizards.net/

[fivestringdaddy]

Karl, the first thing I did to my tricone (thanks to this great community)
was to remove the middle mushroom support from under the neck. Use a
hairdryer, heat up the glue, then lightly tap with a hammer on the end of
a flat screwdriver to slip it out. Then, move the back (neck end)
mushroom as far towards the end of the body as possible. Just slide it up
there until its tight. This will greatly imrpove the low end and sustain.


The next mod I did was to smooth out the body where the cones rest with
sand paper until they were like glass. This helped with the buzzing, as I
play very hard and had buzzes all the time. Just remember, brass is soft,
and can bend, so don't push to hard as you smooth it out. Let the paper
do the work.

As far as the action, these guitars need the heavy strings to sound right.
I play a 16-56, which is a medium for these guitars. They are truly
meant for slide, and some minor fingering. I can hardly play a bar chord
on mine past the fifth fret, but the slide tone is great. You can check
it out at www.jerrycraft.com under the "music" link.

Hope this helps,

Jerry.

[Tony Done]

In addition to the suggestions already made:

The cones can be glued into tricone using kid's hobby glue, to prevent
rattling. The glue joint can be broken very easily; in fact, it will
probably break on its own eventually, as it has on my Beltona, but the dry
glue still matches the irregularities of the cone, so no rattles.

The connection between the bridge and the cones is another source of
rattles. I fixed this by putting tiny bits of blue tac in strategic places
between the cones and saddle - not enough to prevent the metal-to-metal
connection, but enough to stop bouncing.

I have also seated the coverplate in beeswax (messy business), as I was
getting rattles from that when I belted the guitar. I guess that your
coverplate screws are in the same place as mine - along the sides, not in
the corners. I bent the corners inward *very* slightly so that they maintain
a slight positive pressure on the body when the screw are tightened.

When I contacted Steve Evans re pulling my Beltona apart, he emphasised the
importance of replacing the rubber pad which elevates the tailpiece to
maintain a low break angle. I have now put light guage strings on it and
increased the break angle by removing the pad, but I would replace it if I
went back to medium or heavy strings.

Could you fix the off centre strings by moving the tailpiece a bit, without
exposing the original screw hole?


Tony D

Post by KW
Everyone talks about ways to improve import tricones but I cant find any
specifics other than nut, bridge and cone replacement. What other changes
are recommended? Ive seen posts mentioning things like soundposts, leveling
the cones, string angle over the bridge, etc, but I cant find any clear
instructions. Ive tried MIMF and done a google search of this newsgroup with
no luck. Any one know of a FAQ or website with instructions or detailed
discusions on setting up tricones?
Besides the setup porblem my Amistar style 3 has another small problem, the
tailpeice is a little off center by about 1/4 inch and I suspect this is the
reason why its so hard to play. Even though the action isnt too high you
need arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger to play the damn thing. Bending strings
is definatly out of the question. What other factors would affect this?
Break angle over the bridge?
So in summary: (sorry this post is so longwinded)
1.What steps should I do to improve the tone of my tricone
2. Is there a resource for this information?
3.Why is my guitar so damn hard to play?
Thanks in advance.
Karl

[KW]

Thanks everone for all the tips and suggestions. Its just the sort of
info I was looking for.

In answer to the various questions that have been brought up, I'm
using medium gage John pearse strings (.013 - .056) The same strings I
use on all my acoustics so they're not the reason its hard to play. I
would of used heavier strings but none were available. It seems heavy
and medium heavy strings are getting increasingly harder to find in my
neck of the wood. (North Texas) Anyone else have that problem?

Unfortunalty you will still be able to see the screw hole when I move
the tail piece. I can live with it though.

Also, the neck is set correctly. The strings lineup perfectly down the
neck and through the bridge. After the bridge though they take a quick
turn south.

Again, thanks to Tony, Charlie., Mike and "fivestriingdaddy"

Karl